【討論】身分認同 Cultural identity

[MikiRei 10]

有沒有ABC, 移民到外很久的同學?

分享你們曾經經歷過對於自己的身分認同經過.

(打中文真的很慢啊~~~~~暫時換英文. 抱歉啦. 清晨一點啦. 我該睡了所以必須快一點)

For me, I didn't have much struggle really. I never had the urge to "fit" anywhere. I'm comfortable for who I am and accept it. Many of peers went through the struggle of having to *choose* one side. ie. Either they're Asians or they're Australian. I never even THOUGHT about which side I belong to. I find it irrelevant as nationality was created by humans and matters not genetically or, in other words, in a grander scale of perspective. We're all humans. We're all earthlings. Big deal. Though, I did take a bit of thought when someone asked me which do I think I belong. Or rather, when my parents accuse me of being to Western and as of current, I have a sneaky feeling they have an unnecessary prejudice against me whereby they think that I've renounced being Taiwanese/Asian altogether and have completely embraced being Western/Australian. This is really the only problem I have. I consider myself Taiwanese by birth and ancestory but brought up in Australia. I'm a mixture of both the Taiwanese and Australian culture though I have to admit I'm more more Western than my parents like me to be simply because I've spent a much longer time in Australia than in Taiwan. However, I do not consider myself any less Asian than need be. I try and mix the good of both culture as much as possible. There is no need for me to choose to be on either side and I never will. I'm a mix - culturally but definitely Taiwanese genetically.

The biggest problem I have is people LABELLING me. A friend of mine claims that I'm not very Australian and is more Asian. I can see where she's coming from because personally, I'm not 100% into the Australian culture ie. love sports and clubbing and drinking beer. The main reason for this is, I hardly ever go out to parties during my school years and even now, I don't do so that often either. (I blame this on gaming and internet :p) However, the Australian media and my friends are there to influence more or less so Australian I am but to what extend? Who knows. I don't think ANYONE can define 100% what it means to be a person of a certain nationality or culture.

Switch back to the Taiwanese community here, whenever I meet any friends of my parents, one of the most hated prejudice I experience is the immediate assumption that you can't speak Chinese because you were brought up here. I HATE that! I'll tell you if I can't speak Chinese thank you very much. Don't assume. Oh, and the assumption that I can't understand Taiwanese also. All these adults around me speaking in Taiwanese as if I was invisible - until, of course, I laugh with them when they said something funny and then they all look surprised and realise that I can understand them xd .

Another problem is when the parents start discussing about their children and how some parents are concerned that their children becomes to Westernised if they stay overseas too long. My dad usually disagree. He says, to some extend but if you make sure they keep in touch with the mother culture, you won't completely. In comes me who happens to be in English mood (yes. There is English mood and Chinese mood. This is why I say I'm a mix. Both languages are in my head and I can switch if I want to) and comes round to ask dad for a bit of money to rent some videos. At this point, I'm still speaking Chinese (and mind you, I don't have an accent. I speak way better than most of my peers - 連續劇可不是蓋的.很有用的 :E ). It's only when my dad starts giving me certain instructions that I start to answer him in English (but that's only saying "Yes" instead of 是 or 知道啦). This is when one of the parents whisper to her children, "她洋化了".

拜託啊, 這位阿姨. 我不過答沒幾句英文就被妳說洋化啦? 真敗給妳. 會聽, 會看, 會寫(限打字:E ), 會講已經夠好了可以嘛? = =""

[evenstar 10]

個人覺得語言不是最大的認同問題,

而是那種「哪邊才是我的國家」的感覺。

文化當然也是很大的問題囉....

[cj2340 10]

在美國的時候都說自己是台灣人

但到外國的時候,手裡拿著美國護照

說著"im from Taiwan"一點說服力也沒有= =""

總會很猶豫自己到底是美國人還是台灣人

或許都是吧

誰說一定要站在哪一邊呢?

在這交流互通發達的時代

人們大肆的流動

我們是國際人

而非受限制於某一個點

[MikiRei 10]

我比較討厭的事是出國旅行時或是在澳洲時, 背問是哪來的.

Example:

Shopping with mum. The lady at the counter goes, "So you're on holidays, I suppose? From where?"

At university, someone goes, "Where do you come from?"

Me: I live here

Whoever: Yes, but where do you come from?

Me: .....I'm a local

Whoever: Oh. But where were you ORIGINALLY from?

Me: =.=|||| Fine...Taiwan

比較討厭的是, 也不是不想說我不是台灣人, 而是看我的樣子也知道我是亞洲人.

講是台灣人有會被誤認為是海外生或是國外來旅行的

不講對方又死纏爛打, 硬要我講是哪來的.

講澳洲人有會被誤解是 Asian-in-denial.

Local 不就很清楚了嗎? 本是希拉, 蘇俄, 義大利 etc. 的人都不問, 幹嘛專問我啊?

不過, 這也是上大學後才常發生. 以前上學時都不常有(只有老一輩的老師才問.

同年齡的最多會問是不是在這出生的.

但被問時還是很煩啊~~~)

[DisposableDoll 10]

有時候我覺得有亞洲父母移民到西方國家, 或小小就把孩子送到國外去念書, 到頭來卻抱怨自己小孩'太洋化' 這種事感到很不可思議, 人的觀念和思想一定是受到環境影響阿. 如果說是抗拒西方文化的話就不會移民到西方國家吧?

就'太洋化' 這件事來講的話, 其實洋不洋化並沒有一個界限, 跨出了界線就算是洋化或還沒跨出界線就不算是洋化. 我覺得其實很多事情的作風並沒有對與錯. 而我們這種Third Culture Kids有兩種文化可以擁抱, 在兩種文化中去蕪存菁反而是件好事. 舉例來講, 在台灣時我們家對於任何事情都是不太計畫的, 都是當天決定要去哪玩好, 我在英國已經和一個英國家庭住了四年半, 他們對於事情的計畫可以規劃到明年親戚的婚禮和後年的暑假, 或著做任何事都要先make an appointment. (看醫生理頭髮吃飯, 反正幾乎就是任何事情) 剛開始我來的時候想 '難道你人生就要浪費在為了未來的計畫而慢慢醞釀慢慢等待嗎?' 不過後來我越來越覺得凡事還是早點規劃的好, 不然到時候問題很多, 反而假期回到台灣的時候很不能適應沒有計畫的日子. 所以凡是有計劃才是對的嗎? 其實不見然, 對於有些人來講他們比較能適應有規劃的人生, 但對於其他人來講, 計畫卻會阻礙他們的進行. 而人生最重要的就是決定哪一種生活方式比較適合你.

台灣人和英國人關心的事物不太一樣, 但並沒有所謂對與錯的問題, 而是背後都是有原因和歷史的, 並不就只是表面上呈現的事實. 而我們遊走在兩個文化之間的人也就較其他人有多一層機會去了解和用不同層面的解讀方式去了解每件事情背後的原因.

和寄宿家庭住久了, 有時候會覺得他們有很多龜毛的地方不能認同, 但我不會認為這是種族的問題, 而是個人的問題.我覺得以偏概全是個很糟糕的做法. 而對於你說的不喜歡Clubbing, 我的英國同學中也有完全不喜歡socialise的, 所以你同學以你不喜歡Clubbing來定義你是比較偏向亞洲人, 我只能說他有點無知 (或許這個字眼有點強烈...), 用他自己狹隘的世界觀去定義不同的人種, 在他想法中或許以bunch為單位來觀看其他國籍人種, 而非individual. 畢竟人種不是決定一個人的主要因素, 而是個性和生長環境

對於國籍問題, 我從來沒有疑問. 一直都是台灣人, 不過也或許是因為我只有一本護照. 在同學面前Home這個字永遠是台灣的代名詞. 只是在同學面前很少提到有關台灣的文化. 我覺得要融入他們之間就不應該時常提起自己和同學們不同的背景. 隨著出國時間久, 對台灣時事新聞的關心也越來越少了, 但不代表就是不關心, 只是人都已經在英國了, 連英國的時事都快沒時間關心了, 何況是那麼遙遠的台灣. 我並沒有那麼排斥英國籍, 但我生下來就是台灣人, 一輩子只能對一個國籍忠心, 而那就只是台灣. 人一生中有很多事情可以經由努力而改變, 但我的皮膚和面貌是東方人是一輩子都不能改變的事實, 所以就算我多麼努力想融入其他國家文化也不能改變我最終還是有個 '外來者' 的面貌. 而人'排外'的心理其實不難理解, 就像外籍勞工在台灣總是被大眾歧視和剝消是一樣的道理. 我有同學是在英國出生長大的印度裔 (事實上英國有很多很多), 他們他不會稱呼自己為English, 而是稱呼自己British. 因為English似乎是英國白人稱呼 (我並沒有很深入的去研究這個啦..)

cultural identity在我身上最困擾的大概是語言的問題. 我學英文的晚, 大概小五才開始, 朋友說過據說如果11歲以後才開始學一個語言那麼很難達到完全的流利. 我的英文也不是說那麼糟, 但離reflex reaction還有點距離, 而中文表達能力又漸漸的在流失 (打字講話當然沒問題, 但是寫字就常常忘記某某字怎麼寫, 而且字越寫越醜) 有時候覺得如果要英文能力更上一層樓也不是沒辦法的, 但過程中總要有很大的犧牲, 例如強迫自己連思考都用英文去思考, 完全斷絕中文的使用. 但是我又問自己 '這樣真的値得嗎?'

最後一點.. 決定來英國前問了同學有來英國留學過的, 他說他朋友在住在英國最不能習慣的是食物, 而我則想說我是這麼不挑食的人, 這有什麼問題. 直到來了以後才知道... 其實我根本是一個很挑食的人....

[MikiRei 10]

有時候我覺得有亞洲父母移民到西方國家, 或小小就把孩子送到國外去念書, 到頭來卻抱怨自己小孩'太洋化' 這種事感到很不可思議,

*nods furiously* My parents complain that to me A LOT! They use that as a point of argument with me ALL THE TIME. My retort: "You brought me here." Their answer: "I'm regretting it now"

Me: .......=.=|||

I find that there's even some sort of prejudice against me like, I'm only talking back to them because I'm too Westernised or I have too many Western friends and that I'm copying them (not true).

Even my brother, annoying as it is, find it easy to say that I have a Western boyfriend because I came here too young and am too Westernised. It's not like I PURPOSELY sought for a Western boyfriend. In fact, he's like the one Western boy out of my pack of friends as of late (rest are ABC).

而對於你說的不喜歡Clubbing, 我的英國同學中也有完全不喜歡socialise的, 所以你同學以你不喜歡Clubbing來定義你是比較偏向亞洲人, 我只能說他有點無知

Yes, I agree. Many of my current friends don't like clubbing either. We find it boring in fact. Ironically, this particular friend of mine was also an odd one out back in high school along with the rest of the gang. We hated shopping - which was beyond comprehension with most of the other girls. It's a matter of preference as you've said.

但過程中總要有很大的犧牲, 例如強迫自己連思考都用英文去思考, 完全斷絕中文的使用. 但是我又問自己 '這樣真的値得嗎?'

不可能完全斷絕中文的使用於思考. 兩者常用的話是不可能遺忘的.

我寫英文文章時常出現的障礙是會忽然以中文思考.

要麻是會忽然想到一個中文的表達方式貼切於主題但無法完美的翻成英文導自於老師常說我有些表達方式(expression)非常怪. 連我朋友說我有時候會忽然聽起來像fob(Yes, I know. Bad term but that's what she used. *sigh*). 雖沒口音但反而更怪

當然, 我proof read以後是沒問題但兩者通用是不可能遺忘任何一個.

不過無所謂啦. 看個人喜好.

[evenstar 10]

洋化有什麼不好嗎?

這是我覺得奇怪的一件事。

雖說是失去了中國文化有些可惜,

但算不上一件值得被指責的事吧。

我學英文的晚, 大概小五才開始

不會晚吧@@

朋友說過據說如果11歲以後才開始學一個語言那麼很難達到完全的流利.

我不相信有這種事...

語言能否流利看的不是年齡吧。

我的英文也不是說那麼糟, 但離reflex reaction還有點距離, 而中文表達能力又漸漸的在流失 (打字講話當然沒問題, 但是寫字就常常忘記某某字怎麼寫, 而且字越寫越醜) 有時候覺得如果要英文能力更上一層樓也不是沒辦法的, 但過程中總要有很大的犧牲, 例如強迫自己連思考都用英文去思考, 完全斷絕中文的使用. 但是我又問自己 '這樣真的値得嗎?'

我覺得這是必要的犧牲啦。

個人追求的目標是中英文能夠轉換流利,

雖說我現在大部份思考還是用英文...

不過像 MikiRei說的,

你不可能完全斷絕那種中文的思維方式,

那等於是我們的 reflex reaction 嘛XD

[DisposableDoll 10]

小五是不會很晚啦, 不過跟身邊的表堂兄弟姐妹比起來的話算很晚很晚... 是指到小五以前別人跟我說yes跟no 我都聽不懂喔....

有一次跟學校到俄國一間中學去參觀, 在他們的英文課跟一群學生閑聊, 校長問大家都幾歲開始學英文, 大部分都是五歲, 沒有人晚過八歲, 當校長問 'Anybody started later than 8?' 的時候我根本很想舉手.... 歐洲很多國家同年齡的小孩英文程度都很不錯, 我覺得除了語言上有相近的地方, 接觸較多外, 他們大多也都很早就開始學英文了

完全斷絕是當然不可能的阿, 就可能退化的速度會加快吧 XD 不過對於這種問題都是一陣一陣的啦, 因為身邊根本沒有人可以講中文, 有時候一整個學期下來可以好到報告一氣呵成, 但放了個假回台灣後切換速度又開始spasm....

[MikiRei 10]

洋化有什麼不好嗎?

這是我覺得奇怪的一件事。

雖說是失去了中國文化有些可惜,

但算不上一件值得被指責的事吧。

請妳跟我父母講吧. 我從中二跟她們辯到現在也沒有結果 ^.^|||

引用:

作者: DisposableDoll

朋友說過據說如果11歲以後才開始學一個語言那麼很難達到完全的流利.

我不相信有這種事...

語言能否流利看的不是年齡吧。

The 11 year old thing is what they call the 2nd language acquisition (or something along those lines. Check wikipedia). They claim that when one learn a second language above the age of 11, they cannot achieve quite to the same degree as native speakers - which I think is complete nonsense because I've SEEN examples that contradict that theory. I know someone who came to Australia when he was 12 and now he's COMPLETELY forgotten Chinese and speaks English like a native. Another example is a friend of my uncle who's a tour guide. He placed A LOT of hard work in learning the language and even went so far as to imitate the accent to the point you think he's a native speaker. It's a matter of persistence really.

有時候一整個學期下來可以好到報告一氣呵成, 但放了個假回台灣後切換速度又開始spasm....

Looks like you're experiencing what I call "language confusion". Though I don't quite have the problem as you've stated there because I'm quite used to switching from languages to languages (school = English, home = Chinese - sometimes I have to switch within 0.1 seconds, especially if I'm talking to and from my friends and my parents or with a phone consultant and my mum. It's become my reflex)

Just for some fun, I'll tell you one bizarre experience I had.

This was back in year 8 and it was the last class of the day. It was German and at my school, our language teachers pretty much speak whatever language they're teaching us as much as possible (so that we get used to the flow of course). Anyways, I was EXTREMELY tired that day and hence, my brain was going haywire. At this point in time, I'm learning German, French and Japanese. So in total, I have about 5 possible languages circling in my head. Anyways, my teacher asked me a question and unfortunately as it is, ALL FIVE LANGUAGES were turned on. I was supposed to reply "Ja" (yes in German) but I went from "是" to "Hai" to "Oui" to "Ye..." *shakes head a bit* and finally "Ja". My teacher chuckled a bit but the rest of the class stared at me. ^.^|||

[布兒瑪 10]

我也聽過另一個說法 6歲or7歲以前出國 學習後語文能力方可等同於當地小孩

不過我覺得這樣自己本來的語言應該也會忘得差不多了吧

[姓韓者 11]

wowwowowowow......

I'm losing my oracy in both Chinese and English...orz"

I mean, just feeling difficult to express myself and ideas through mouth...T_T

and my Cantonese pronouncitaion is also altering as I'm forgetting the accents......= =#

(it's the consequence of being 宅 for long time......)

who can help me...

[MikiRei 10]

我也聽過另一個說法 6歲or7歲以前出國 學習後語文能力方可等同於當地小孩

yes

不過我覺得這樣自己本來的語言應該也會忘得差不多了吧

妳不接觸了話當然會啊. 但又不是每個人都這樣(大部分的人會忘啦)

我也是6歲移民到澳洲的.

在家都是講中文, 常接觸, 自然是不會忘的

[ManUtd 10]

對留學生來說, 如果洋化的定義是開始被國外的思考方式, 生活習慣所影響. 對待生活中事物的角度改變. 那是無可避免的. 不然如果完全都和在台灣一樣, 花那麼多錢送出國去作什麼?

我想對於洋化這個東西敏感的焦點主要是程度的問題及身份認同的問題. 什麼程度叫可以接受, 那是見仁見智. 但老實說我不覺得身份認同等同於洋化. 一個人在台灣也可以美國自居. 出口閉口就是"我們美國". 但是這個人其實還是只有一本台灣護照, 對美國及英文的了解程度也很低. 只是也許曾去過美國住過一陣子. 回來就以洋人自居. 個人不覺得這種是洋化, 這種只是對自己身份認知的否定. 並不是洋化的結果. 但是一講到所謂的洋化, 大家腦中浮現的模像....往往就是這種人. 我想這種人是去本土化, 但是有沒有洋化...那就天知道了.

自己出國時覺得除了唸書之外, 完全不想改變除了學問以外, 任何其他部份的自己. 但是後來回頭過來看自己, 就知道改變是不可能阻檔的. 更有趣的是, 回去了台灣, 人家主觀上就會認定出國的人就不同. 好像想要一樣, 也不可能了. 慢慢的, 身邊的朋友改變了, 一起作的事情, 聊的東西都不同了. 每次見到以前在台灣的老朋友, 都可以感覺到那種被深化的差異. 我不想變成他們口中: "你們國外回來的...."分類. 但是我也不覺得我本人有什地方不好需要改進. 所以最後也只好算了.

生活習慣最明顯的是不再看台灣的電視. 剛去英國時我根本不能相信世界上能有那麼無趣的電視節目. 但是現在變得很愛看了 反觀台灣電視, 第一年暑假回家, 下了飛機到家我可以電視一路看到晚上三點. 什麼都看, 連續劇, 單元劇, 綜藝節目. 談話節目. 第二年回來變成只看新聞. 現在變成連新聞都不看了. 最多只看電影及運動轉播.

文化方面, 自己覺得對中華文化的認同更重於出國前. 現在覺得自己是華人很幸福. 還想多讀些古文及回去學毛筆字. 這算是洋化嗎? 還是中國化呀?

[Rockable 10]

我是小時後在國外,雙重國籍

但是也沒怎樣阿

只是去美加時都不用申請簽證還有也不用被海關刁難而已= =

同學之間也只是覺得很酷

但是高中的班上沒有人知道這件事情,高中以前的同學知道

[冬風 軒 10]

我是大學才鬼混出來的，可能比較沒有身分認同的問題。我個人認為自己就是台灣人，而擴大而言屬於華人，再大一點就亞洲人。就算自己從小出生在外國我怎麼看還是一個亞洲人，頂多加一句: I live here for 1X years.

話說回來，出國一年多了，有個最重要的感想就是其實英文不管多好，中文一定是100%不能忘的。畢竟是自己的母語。我認為一個人一出生就註定了一個人屬於哪裡，無論多麼努力，即使從小就和外國人生長在一塊，最終還是會被社會認為是屬於原本屬於的地方。

這可不是什麼無奈，而是事情有該有的樣子，刻意扭曲抑或改變帶來的往往是唐突與奇怪。

[MikiRei 10]

我認為一個人一出生就註定了一個人屬於哪裡，無論多麼努力，即使從小就和外國人生長在一塊，最終還是會被社會認為是屬於原本屬於的地方。

Hmmmm....so, what do you think of Asians born overseas though? Do you consider them Asians? Or wherever they were born?

[ManUtd 10]

我個人覺得, 多文化的衝突往往是來自於其他人對某人身份的認定及從而給予的壓力, 而不是自身的想法或是刻意扭曲.

被社會認為是原本屬於的地方....這點個人完全同意. 不過, 也許這句話可以被更進一步精確的來分析, 命題為: 這個人是被"哪一個"社會認為是屬於"哪一個"地方的呢.

我自己也是大學才出國, 所以可能也沒有什麼太大的身份認知問題. 不過; 我可以感覺到英國社會及台灣社會看待我的角度, 在我旅居在英國的這段時間中不變的在改變. 他人的眼光及對我的理解及要求都在改變. 這是現實. 所以身份的認同的問題可能不是一句我是台灣人, 華人, 亞洲人就可以解決. 而就變成了我要如何去看待及回應這二個社會對我身份看法的改變.

(P.S. 如果15樓的朋友是在英國的St. Andrews, 您應該慢慢會知道在這裏華人並不是屬於Asian這個族群. 呵呵.)

我個人覺得MikiRei提問是很有討論義意的, 好比英國有許多的印巴移民的第二代女性, 她們在英國出生, 在英國長大, 受英國教育. 思想觀念完完全全就是英國人. 而英國社會也看待她們為英國人. 但是在一些案例之中, 她們有時會被自己的家長騙回祖國去嫁給自己家族中選定的對象(之前可能完全不認識). 因為那個原來的家族及社會認定她們仍然是那個社會中的一份子. 而在那個社會之中, 男婚女嫁由家族為其決定是天經地義的事情......在這些情況之中, 我們可以看見: 不同的社會及價值觀, 法律, 人權, 會對同一個人作出不同的要求, 而某些社會的觀念及制度可能不太容許個人為自己在其自身的某項事務上作出為自己作選擇.

所以, 我想問題不是在於誰要怎麼想他自己. 而是在於人類世界之中, 社會化的結果會pomoting the notion of "we are all the same"..."we should be the same", "why can't you do the same as we do"等等.......現代人也許口口聲聲說be yourself. 殊不知社會化的基礎是從根本上的反個人為自身而存在的合理性. 當我們只講一個人如何如何時, 事情似乎可以很簡單. 但是當我們把社會拉進來. 一切就不是那麼簡單的了.

[Krislih 10]

I definitely agree with both Man UTD(by the way i hate your team, im a LIVERPOOL FAN ) and Miki Rei's opinions.

In my opinion, the way how I see myself as both German and Taiwanese though, this is from the cultural aspect of course. Race, I am obviously Asian.

If someone of a race that's not caucasian does not have the ability to speak mother tongue, in my opinion, it is somewhat of a joke, but again, i cannot expect everyone to be the same. The world isn't fair after all, no one is the same, we come from different backgrounds, even if we came from the same country but we think differently.

[ManUtd 10]

I definitely agree with both Man UTD(by the way i hate your team, im a LIVERPOOL FAN ) and Miki Rei's opinions.

In my opinion, the way how I see myself as both German and Taiwanese though, this is from the cultural aspect of course. Race, I am obviously Asian.

If someone of a race that's not caucasian does not have the ability to speak mother tongue, in my opinion, it is somewhat of a joke, but again, i cannot expect everyone to be the same. The world isn't fair after all, no one is the same, we come from different backgrounds, even if we came from the same country but we think differently.

I agree...

Mother tongue indeed is an issue which we have to think about carefully as language and identity are ultra close related. I kind of sick about the fact that some Taiwanese parents seem putting English as more of an elite/upper class language in Taiwan. But anyway, it is just my personal view.

by the way. Liverpool is doing very well this season so far. After the glory last year, I personally do not think the Red Devils can maintain their domination as they did last season. You cannot always on the peak. However, it will be a long season, let’s see.

[MikiRei 10]

命題為: 這個人是被"哪一個"社會認為是屬於"哪一個"地方的呢.

Hahaha...therein lies the reason why I don't really like people giving me a label because it's too confusing. My western friends think I'm Asian. Asian communities (including my parents) think I'm Western. So which do I belong? That's why I'm more than happy to be a mix - I might as well - or I simply don't care anymore just to rid myself of the agony.

而就變成了我要如何去看待及回應這二個社會對我身份看法的改變.

*nods*

I do answer differently depending who's asking the question. More like, I tend to clarify the question, as in the perspective the inquirer is asking the question from before answering.

所以, 我想問題不是在於誰要怎麼想他自己. 而是在於人類世界之中, 社會化的結果會pomoting the notion of "we are all the same"..."we should be the same", "why can't you do the same as we do"等等.......現代人也許口口聲聲說be yourself. 殊不知社會化的基礎是從根本上的反個人為自身而存在的合理性. 當我們只講一個人如何如何時, 事情似乎可以很簡單. 但是當我們把社會拉進來. 一切就不是那麼簡單的了.

That's a very interesting way to look at things. In the end, it's a balance isn't it? One cannot please everyone - that is why you cannot adhere to all that society expects of you. On the other hand, one cannot insist everything to be viewed at or accepted in the way they deem fit, In the end, it's a comprimise - to associate well in society as society expects but not too much to the extreme so that you have no self.

Thanks ManUtd. Interesting view there. :)

I kind of sick about the fact that some Taiwanese parents seem putting English as more of an elite/upper class language in Taiwan.

Join the club, mate. Join the club.

[Krislih 10]

I agree...

Mother tongue indeed is an issue which we have to think about carefully as language and identity are ultra close related. I kind of sick about the fact that some Taiwanese parents seem putting English as more of an elite/upper class language in Taiwan. But anyway, it is just my personal view.

by the way. Liverpool is doing very well this season so far. After the glory last year, I personally do not think the Red Devils can maintain their domination as they did last season. You cannot always on the peak. However, it will be a long season, let’s see.

The parental generation usually have a different view on raising children, they certainly are looking for benefits for their children, while in the whilst of all that, they could be lost and that could result the norm which Man UTD is talking about. To them, its all for the greater good, plus, we always know that in order to have a place in the white- dominance societiè... we must behave just like them.( maybe not exactly like them, but to be able to immersed yourself easily in the thier societié. )

Your environment also influences you of who you are, people around you, and the kind of culture you are dealing with... finally, surely your family!

In my case, you can take me out of Stuttgart, but you cannot take Suttgart out of me.

* This paragraph is only an hypothesis, not for REAL xD

Moreover, Liverpool certainly are having a good run in the premierleague right now, but just as you said, it is a long season... since 3months later the winter transfer window will be opened! However, Robbie Keane of Liverpool has yet to really present his worth to the Kop.

[MikiRei 10]

we always know that in order to have a place in the white- dominance societiè... we must behave just like them.

Don't quite agree with you here. Considering there are sub-cultures within cultures, behaving "exactly like them" is impossible as there is no common ground "to exactly behave like them" from. (lol)

As you've said, I think the correct choice is "assimilate" though to what extent is the question.

As for whether there is a particular "model" as to how one should act in a white-dominated country, I highly doubt it. White Europeans by no means act anywhere the same as White Americans and neither do White Australians (lol - a term I never use come to think of it but for the sake of argument *shrug*) act the same as White South-Africans and so on and so forth. This is not mentioning sub-cultures existing WITHIN these countries which further goes to show how there's no "model" to act a certain way in a certain society. It's hard enough to perfectly define it as it is so changing approach as you see fit is probably the best way to go. Anyways - nit-picking again - and trailing off topic again...blergh

[Richtu 10]

Don't quite agree with you here. Considering there are sub-cultures within cultures, behaving "exactly like them" is impossible as there is no common ground "to exactly behave like them" from. (lol)

The Queen. :P

[Krislih 10]

Don't quite agree with you here. Considering there are sub-cultures within cultures, behaving "exactly like them" is impossible as there is no common ground "to exactly behave like them" from. (lol)

As you've said, I think the correct choice is "assimilate" though to what extent is the question.

As for whether there is a particular "model" as to how one should act in a white-dominated country, I highly doubt it. White Europeans by no means act anywhere the same as White Americans and neither do White Australians (lol - a term I never use come to think of it but for the sake of argument *shrug*) act the same as White South-Africans and so on and so forth. This is not mentioning sub-cultures existing WITHIN these countries which further goes to show how there's no "model" to act a certain way in a certain society. It's hard enough to perfectly define it as it is so changing approach as you see fit is probably the best way to go. Anyways - nit-picking again - and trailing off topic again...blergh

I do agree with your opinion and I just realised i did not cite it quite clearly.

What I meant by behaving just like them---> by behaving the way that is acceptable or normal in the societé that they are in.

[yalezzx 10]

这个很有意思。一般我觉得在15岁之前生活在母国5年以上的，还都对母国有很强的认同。我有一个同学就是在德国出生，9岁回中国，然后生活了7-8年。拿的是德国护照，但是大家如果说他是德国人，他就很不爽~