【Chat】A Rite of Passage

[Giovano 10]

The reason that I wanted to write this assay was this rite of passage can only be seen in some countries like South Korea and Taiwan. So, it is something those foreigners like Americans do not know. I wanted to share this experience with my teachers and friends in USA.

Here we go:

In my country, young men need to serve in the military for two years, whether they like it or not. We call it the obligation of a citizen. Anyone who try to escape from this obligation, unless he has exoneration from the military hospital for some health problem, will be punished. The penalty for it is being put behind bars.

The elder people always say that a man who doesn’t go through this period of military duty is not a real man. So lots of people say young men’s birthday gifts at the age of twenty are serving in the military. After that, young men join society, with high expectation from their family and friends, become grown men.

This is a well-accepted standard. If a young man has a job which he gathered before his rite of passage, it will be considered a temporary job. Men always get an official job after their return from the military; moreover, they get more pay and are treated as official staff members because they have more responsibilities.

Some corporations even want to hire men who have served in the Marine Corp; they also like men from some special forces, for these young men have strong bodies and steel willpower. In the war of competition in Taiwan, they (these young men) will be the last men standing.

Though this rite of passage could be changed a few years later, in Taiwan society, it still means a lot. Every time people see a barbaric teenager, from the bottom of the hearts, they think the teenager should join the military.

PS: I put men which means males. Young men also means males. But, I don't mean to discriminate females. It is just the way I say it.

[MikiRei 10]

The reason that I wanted to write this assay was this rite of passage can only be seen in some countries like South Korea and Taiwan. So, it is something those foreigners like Americans do not know. I wanted to share this experience with my teachers and friends in USA.

The reason why I wanted to write this essay is because the existence of a rite of passage can only be seen in certain countries such as South Korea or Taiwan. Hence, many foreigners, such as Americans, may not know what it is. The below essay was written to share my experiences to my teachers and friends in USA.

Side note: Rite of passage actually occurs in MANY culture, not just Asian countries (taking from the examples you used)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rite_of_passage

Comments:

From the looks of the length of your entire passage, this does NOT look like an essay. This sounds more like a recount or a piece of short writing, relating personal experiences.

*reads a bit forward*

Yep - this isn't an essay.

I strongly advise against saying things like "those foreigners" - a VERY negative vibe is given off using those words.

In my country, young men need to serve in the military for two years, whether they like it or not.

In my country, it is compulsory for young men to serve in the military for two years.

or

In my country, young men are conscripted into military service for two years.

We call it the obligation of a citizen. Anyone who try to escape from this obligation, unless he has exoneration from the military hospital for some health problem, will be punished. The penalty for it is being put behind bars.

Comment 1: exoneration = when a person has been proven innocent after having been convicted of a crime

Correction:

We view this conscription as a citizen's obligation to the nation. Anyone who tries to escape from this obligation, unless he has been exempted from service due to health issues via a military hospital, will be punished. The penalty is usually a jail sentence.

The elder people always say that a man who doesn’t go through this period of military duty is not a real man.

The elders always say that a man who doesn't go through this period of military duty is not a real man.

So lots of people say young men’s birthday gifts at the age of twenty are serving in the military. After that, young men join society, with high expectation from their family and friends, become grown men.

Hence, many people say that a young man's 20th birthday gift is to serve in the military. He will only become a fully grown adult when he joins society.

Personal comment: I didn't add in the bit about high expectations - mainly because, I don't really know how it should be included, or if it's even necessary. Also, not fully 100% sure what you're trying to say.

This is a well-accepted standard. If a young man has a job which he gathered before his rite of passage, it will be considered a temporary job.

.........you keep saying "young man".......maybe you should use "boy" instead? Since you're trying to talk about the time between when a teenage boy is accepted and recognised as an adult men. Anyways onwards.

If a young man acquires a job before his rite of passage, it will usually be a temporary job.

Men always get an official job after their return from the military; moreover, they get more pay and are treated as official staff members because they have more responsibilities.

Men always get an official job after their return from military service; moreover, they receive higher pay and are treated as official staff members because *stops here*

Comment: "They have more responsibilities" - what do you mean? They are PERCEIVED to have more aptitude in taking on more responsibilities or they have gone through valuable experience to be able to hold more responsibilities? Not very clear....

Some corporations even want to hire men who have served in the Marine Corp; they also like men from some special forces, for these young men have strong bodies and steel willpower.

Some corporations even want to hire men who had served in the Marine Corp. They also like men from certain special forces as these young men have strong bodies and steel willpower.

In the war of competition in Taiwan, they (these young men) will be the last men standing.

In a competitive society such as Taiwan, these young men will usually be the last men standing.

Though this rite of passage could be changed a few years later, in Taiwan society, it still means a lot.

Though this rite of passage could be changed in several years, in Taiwan's society, it still means a lot.

Every time people see a barbaric teenager, from the bottom of the hearts, they think the teenager should join the military.

Whenever people see an ill-behaved teenager, they will usually think, from the bottom of their hearts, that this teenager should join the military.

Comment: Ok - at this point, I'm quite certain that you should be using "teenage boys" or "teenage youths" instead of "young men" as "young men" implies a mature men of a young age.

Comment 2: Barbaric?? That's a little too harsh o.0

PS: I put men which means males. Young men also means males. But, I don't mean to discriminate females. It is just the way I say it.

Technically, using the term "male" won't be suitable anyways because the term is usually used for more scientific purposes.

eg. "The male body" or "The male peacock blah blah blah" etc.

[Giovano 10]

My teacher insisted that we cannot use “reason why” because reason is why. I know, you can google it online and see native speakers use them. And, the TV shows always show this expression. I really don’t know. I guess you can still use them whenever you want

When I said “this rite of passage”, it meant “serving in the military” which is mandatory and is rare.

Why did you revise my ‘some’ to “certain”? I love “some” because it makes me feel good. Ha Ha~

Some corporations even want to hire men who had served in the Marine Corp. They also like men from certain special forces as these young men have strong bodies and steel willpower.

Whoops~you can’t take off the semicolon here. That will confuse the readers. Who are they?^o)

In the war of competition in Taiwan, they (these young men) will be the last men standing. My ESL teacher who was the professor of University of Seattle loved this sentence very much, but you don’t like it. Mmm………….interesting!!:E

Thank you~ you remind me the word “exoneration”. When I wrote this “little” assay in ESL 2005, I couldn’t find the right word to express the meaning. Now you found the right one for me.

Walky-Talky:P

[MikiRei 10]

My teacher insisted that we cannot use “reason why” because reason is why.

Good point. I use it because everyone uses it which is probably why you shouldn't ALWAYS trust native speakers ^.^|||

Why did you revise my ‘some’ to “certain”? I love “some” because it makes me feel good. Ha Ha~

Flows better and is a better choice of word, in my opinion anyways.

My ESL teacher who was the professor of University of Seattle loved this sentence very much, but you don’t like it. Mmm………….interesting!

Yes, I actually can imagine him liking it. When I was rephrasing this part, I had an image of an English teacher (much to the likeness of this VERY COOL English teacher I had back in school) who probably chuckled in delight when he heard that expression. It's unusual but at the same time, humourously dramatic. I changed it only because it's not a commonly heard expression but I guess you can say it's your style of writing so either way.

Whoops~you can’t take off the semicolon here. That will confuse the readers. Who are they?

oops - typo. Danke.

Quote from www.dictionary.com on "essay"

1. a short literary composition on a particular theme or subject, usually in prose and generally analytic, speculative, or interpretative.

As far as I know, and generally, whenever we're asked to write essays back when I was in school, essays are generally on a particular topic of discussion and also requires evidence and explanation to backup your argument. This is why I say your written composition isn't an essay. You're not proving any point. You're just relating a certain fact, information or personal experience. Of course, as English isn't my major, I won't say I'm 100% sure. Check with the experts.

[Giovano 10]

Miki, you know. My professor once took out a sheet of paper and told us to erase those "it is" and "there is". When we got the paper, we found out that some sentences on that piece of paper with some "it is" and "there is".

The teacher said, "Because, they are not standar English!!! and in my class, my way or highway!!!"

[Giovano 10]

In a competitive society such as Taiwan, these young men will usually be the last men standing.

=================================================================

Why do I have to use competitive society? This expression narrows down the meaning of my original "war of competition" because it may happen outside the society. It could be international. In the office of Taipei World Trade Center, a war is going on.

When I recite this sentence, I realize the "such as" is like a pullback(stumbling). The rhythm of the sentence is going down,and the "usually" does the same thing!!

If you don't believe me, just emphasize the "war". In the war of competition in Taiwan, these young will be the last men standing. Sounds more powerful~~~xd:E:P

[damoko 10]

When I recite this sentence, I realize the "such as" is like a pullback(stumbling). The rhythm of the sentence is going down,and the "usually" does the same thing!!

Umm...I dont see anything wrong with Miki's version.

If you don't believe me, just emphasize the "war". In the war of competition in Taiwan, these young will be the last men standing. Sounds more powerful~~~xd:E:P

Dont you think war is very similar to competition (well, not exactly the same I know)? Using these words in one sentence just doesnt make sense imo.

BTW, why not use the quote code to make your posts neater?

[Giovano 10]

Umm...I dont see anything wrong with Miki's version.

Dont you think war is very similar to competition (well, not exactly the same I know)? Using these words in one sentence just doesnt make sense imo.

There is no right and wrong about this sentence. It 's just the way you interpet it.

Walky-Talky:P

[damoko 10]

There is no right and wrong about this sentence.

Yeah, theyre alright. Its just...abit weird I think (or Im too pernickety :P)

It 's just the way you interpet it.

Walky-Talky:P

You did make something wrong this time (and you see, Im not so pernickety! lol). Did you mean interpret here? :p

Anyway nice to meet you folk! Youve brought many new things into this forum.

[Giovano 10]

Yeah, theyre alright. Its just...abit weird I think (or Im too pernickety :P)

You did make something wrong this time (and you see, Im not so pernickety! lol). Did you mean interpret here? :p

Anyway nice to meet you folk! Youve brought many new things into this forum.

That's OK~I really like to talk to you guys. I have a classmate,she is from The States. She also has spelling problems,but, will that jeopardize her study? No,not at all~

The only problem here is your English teachers don't speak English. That's biggest problem in Taiwan's English education. I sometimes feel that those teachers are not qualified to be English teachers. That is sad~~really sad.

I spent 20 years in learning English,but I still couldn't say the language when I first came here. Does that make any sense to you? Absolutely not!!!

So, don't dis Philipinos in Taiwan because they speak English everyday. We spent lots of money for nothing!!! Well,yeah, grammar, our grammar is very good,better than the native speakers.......

[damoko 10]

The only problem here is your English teachers don't speak English. That's biggest problem in Taiwan's English education. I sometimes feel that those teachers are not qualified to be English teachers. That is sad~~really sad.

I know. I have the same feeling too. When I was in the UK, teachers would not teach ANY languages like that. I want to quote Miki's most frequently-said words: "Rote studying wont help!" :p

[Giovano 10]

Listen to the music pal~Don't think too much!

[MikiRei 10]

The teacher said, "Because, they are not standar English and in my class, my way or highway"

Sounds like you have an eccentric teacher. I meet them often enough and most of the time, they're awesome and I don't usually complain. Well, fine, in your teacher's classroom, his way or the highway. Suit yourself.

In the war of competition in Taiwan, these young will be the last men standing. Sounds more powerful~~~

You misunderstood me. What I was saying was that your way of expression was unnatural to a native speaker's ears. You said it sounds more powerful. However, in the particular context you are writing in, it sounds overly dramatic.

Furthermore, "war of competition" is a little redundant if you think about it. War IS competition and vice versa (in general anyways - unless you're really that difficult and want to get nit-picky about it then *sigh* - fine - whatever). War of competition sounds like "war of war" or "competition of competition". It's.......redundant.....as I see it. *sigh* Whatever. Obviously, you've amused your teacher (and I'll tell you why - because it's unusual but at the same time, due to its over-dramatic effect, it's funny) and you don't seem to want to hear anything against it - even if people were merely SUGGESTING an alternative that perhaps, sounds a little more NATURAL to native speakers. In retrospect, I guess you an make it your own, unique style (not really - I can see why you ended up writing like that - a wift of Chinese expression is in it to be honest >_>) so in terms of individualistic expression, I guess it's a plus.

If that's your style of expression, fair enough. Do whatever you want. I shall seal my mouth in future.

There is no right and wrong about this sentence. It 's just the way you interpet it.

Spelling error: interpret - well, I guess damoko's already done that.

I'm afraid for this particular sentence, it has nothing to do with how we interpret it. As explained above, using two words of similar meaning is redundant and sounds clunky. It's like declaring two variables in a computer program and giving them the same definition and then having them to point to the same thing - why do that? Waste of time to interpret and execute. (In fact, having them point to the same thing probably won't even compile come to think of it ^.^|||. *shuts brain - way too late in the evening - or morning*) Though........*sigh*.....whatever. Do what you want.....*exits*

[Giovano 10]

I guess you an make it your own, unique style (not really - I can see why you ended up writing like that - a wift of Chinese expression is in it to be honest >_>)

an make it?

a wift of?

new words?0_o

[evadne 11]

I know. I have the same feeling too. When I was in the UK, teachers would not teach ANY languages like that. I want to quote Miki's most frequently-said words: "Rote studying wont help!" :p

But it's awkwardly enough that the pedantic Greek books stated "repetitive study of paradigms helps student to memorize and examine grammatical structures well."... Forgive my words, it was not the same situation.

*

In the war of competition in Taiwan, these young will be the last men standing.

Please reduce and revise.

"Those youngsters will eventually last through the competition in Taiwan."

"The young will last thru the competition in Taiwan"

-> "Taiwanese teenagers prevail"... sounds ideological isn't it? :P

*

War IS competition

Methinks, war = armed fighting, often destructive, while competition = polemic argument, sometimes even encouraging and enforcing mutually. Well, metaphorically they're roughly the same...

*

Well,yeah, grammar, our grammar is very good,better than the native speakers.......

two words: citation needed. elites compare with other elites, masters do not compare.

*

Any young and healthy male Taiwanese citizen was obliged to serve in the army for 16 monthes, one failing to comply will be imprisoned. Adages had it that true men served: it was a birthday present for the 18-year-olds. Job seekers lacking that experience were considered as casuals, while they're treated as "true men" after, being higher-paid and better-ranked. They were also expected more by their comrades and family because of this "matureness": Some employees wanted only ex-Marines or discharged special force members for their "trained body and soldered mind" - "They'll be the last men who sustain in such a tough society." Despite that this apprehension may change gradually, it still remain effective nowadays.

*

上面是簡化的版本，我不知道這樣修會不會變糟

幾個說明：

exoneration, 等等都是 free from crime + free from obligation, 所以我改用 anyone who's healthy shall comply (為了國家崇高的利益，嘖)

ex-Marines or discharged special force members 寫得不好，我希望有人告訴我該怎麼修改這句

[MikiRei 10]

I guess you an make it your own

Danke again - typo.

an = can. Lost the "c". I type a little too fast sometimes. Cheers

[Giovano 10]

Please reduce and revise.

"Those youngsters will eventually last through the competition in Taiwan."

"The young will last thru the competition in Taiwan"

-> "Taiwanese teenagers prevail"... sounds ideological isn't it? :P

Well, it was kind of a rhetorical question.