【問題】關於英文免修

[abtvctkto61 10]

喔喔

我發的陳年主題被挖出來了

當然

說美國人拼字語文法爛完全是我的經驗

而且只是大部分

當然一定有很厲害的人在

只是我沒遇過幾個而已

[Faust 10]

To evadne,

This is probably my first post on this forum. I feel really sorry for myself that my first post gets wasted on you. I agree with Dan, "english is not just about really cool, flashy and sophisticated vocab." You are not in the position to tell others how they should study. Also, I suggest you learn your "cool, flashy and sophisticated vocab" before you use them. You can either use languages as tools or admire their beauty as a form of art. Yet the most important thing is to let people understand what you are saying. It would be a pity if people can't understand your posts because of their lack of proficiency in English, but it is much worse if it's because you are using words that are beyond your command of the English language.

在此對各位路人說聲抱歉，這種東西確實有傷本版的合諧。未來也不會再用英文發言。

[wctaiwan 10]

I do realise this topic was started over a year ago, but I do have some things to say on this issue, which I hope would generate further meaningful discussion...

Wow, what a thoughtful discussion we have going on here. Yeah, Taiwan's English education (or at least, how my teacher does it) definitely isn't going in the right direction, so if your English is good enough, you can really just study on your own. Do some of the vocab / grammar stuff, sure, but most importantly, use your English. And I don't mean use as in to take tests, etc. (although you can do that too if that works for you), but to do reading, a lot of reading - you don't have to read books with varied vocab (LotR, etc.), but it would help a lot to read from varied sources - Read about international happenings on International Herald Tribune [link], for example, or track the latest gadgets using the English version of Engadget [link]. It also helps to participate in English web forums, just to see how everyone else talks and to give yourself some chance to practice. And also, Yahoo!奇摩迷你筆 [link] is a very useful utility for looking up words while reading.

Anyway, I firmly believe in the idea that a language is a tool for communication, not something to show off (in most cases, anyway). This post I'm writing is rather formal, but I still try to use simple vocabulary. When you write, you want people to understand you, there is no point of you writing a beautiful masterpiece of the English language only to have nobody being able to understand it without constantly looking up words in a dictionary. Classical Chinese is nice for studying its beauty, but Modern Chinese eventually replaced its status as the common written language since it is a lot easier to understand for the general public. evadne, I have extremely high respect for you, with you having designed a beautiful school publication, voiced some very sensible opinions, showed your deep understanding in many subjects and all. But seriously, I think that while it's nice to be able to use English with a good command of a varied vocabulary, it is more important to write in a way that even people with the most basic understanding of English can understand you.

I realise what I have said is mostly repeating what others have said, but yeah, that's what I think.

(對那些英文不是強項的朋友說聲抱歉，我真的沒能力用中文把這種東西打完。 ><)

wctaiwan

EDIT: About Americans' ability to spell and use grammar properly, I have met people satisfying both sides of the argument. It's just like people's ability to write Chinese in Taiwan, some people are good, while others are less so.

[abtvctkto61 10]

...... When you write, you want people to understand you, there is no point of you writing a beautiful masterpiece of the English language only to have nobody being able to understand it without constantly looking up words in a dictionary. ......

Now we're talking.

This is the reason why people are over-estimating college-level textbooks. My teacher asked in class whether we would like to use college-level math textbooks or not, and people starts whining all of the sudden. I don't quite understand. Textbooks are meant to be understood, so it shouldn't be that hard. Besides, students my age should have been learning English for about 7,8 years, I really don't see why reading books should pose any problem.

Seriously, those guys are reading books written (or rewritten) for kids 2nd or 3rd grade. AND they're not having an easy time reading smoothly.

Stop kidding me.

Back on topic. I did the 英文免修 and it's really nice. Anyone having the chance should go for it. Saves you heaps of time.

And let's stop with the English posts here. Thanks.

[aa011854 10]

囧...這裡是英文版嗎???(頭昏中...)

話說...

如果英文已經那麼強了，考學測指考應該也只是小意思吧?

(畢竟...學測指考比較重字彙，不像學校段考那麼機車...)

平時多多保持語感，到高三再寫寫考古題應該就足夠了?

[吳王哈哈 10]

And let's stop with the English posts here. Thanks.

請大家盡量用"大眾"的文字發表

以維持本版合諧

(對一個英文被當的人很辛苦)

英文免修阿

聽說規定很嚴

不過看各位回成這樣

應該也不會太難了吧

[cj2340 10]

　　　　　首先，我認為Evadne那篇文會以英文來發表只是平行式的回應abtv所發的英文回應而已，到底show off 的是誰，我沒有立場作評論。

第二點，對於Evadne用字的評論，我們先需了解，他那篇回應是發給abtv 看的，對於一定語言程度的人用平等的用字用語，難道說Evadne高估了avtv嗎?

第三點，我們都知道大眾雜誌（不包含文學雜誌）用詞用語最能反映社會上的文辭溝通程度和型態。我拿最近一篇國家地理雜誌（National Geography Magazine）探討非洲黑人法老王的文章來做比較好了，這種普通的科學性雜誌的用詞用語跟Evadne回的那篇比起來，Evadne的詞句是非常大眾的formal文型。若此種文型被列為 ‘難以讓大眾閱讀’ 那國家地理雜誌是否早在十幾年前就該被大眾雜誌圈淘汰或被歸類為文學雜誌？　依照abtv的書單看來，國家地理雜誌的文辭應當只是普普文學而已(我希望自己沒有錯誤性的高估你)。

第四點，我完全認為若在口語溝通上過度使用所謂big word (你們所歸類的難字)是非常不合宜的方式。但以這種文章式，書寫式的回應來說，formal 的寫法和用詞用句是對另一方的尊重。若把此種文型當作 show off，是極為荒謬的。

第五點，我認為一個人的用詞用語在沒有過分強烈傷害他人的前提之下應當是自由的。就像對於Evadne所說abtv書單的書不能算是pure literature，我雖在此點不同意，但那也只是他的想法，他的自由。對於單單語言用詞，只因為你不了解那些辭而說別人show off或不應該，有如此想法的人是否應當再把這種想法多次思考思考？我覺得有不同的意見，可以，但不應以強烈的方式大作文章，甚至攻擊他人。

第六點，文辭的選擇真的很重要。在英語系國家，你怎麼說話，用什麼字，代表個人的氣質，和尊重他人與否。文章用sophisticated的字 很多時候都有意想不到的說服力，並且讓文章文意更精準。來美國這些日子我在formal口語溝通和寫作上下了很多功夫，以個人經驗來說，和人說話或在社上做規劃談判時，你若不能說的formal，用一些sophisticated的字，他人很少會特別尊重你的意見，甚者，他們會認為你對事物態度上的吊啷當，或不尊重。

To abtv，Kafka的文學其實很直得看喔，你可以先看看他有名的＜變形記＞。我自己其實也很喜歡科幻小說，我建議你看看H. G. Wells的書，或是看一本原文是俄文的Dystopia小說 ‘We’ .

問好。

[wctaiwan 10]

不好意思，我用字不正確（囧）。

我那個 show off 其實寫的時候沒有想太多，也沒特定去考慮它的負面意義。我那個時候只是在說，我並不同意用英文時必須使用一些較文雅的文字來顯示自己的程度。現在再把之前的發言都讀一次，好像也沒人特定這麼說... 這樣講好了，我覺得認識很多字是好事，但是當別人可能看不懂或覺得讀起來很吃力時，我們就應該避免使用這些字。evdane 學長對語言的研究顯然頗為深入，我當時只是在發表個人看法而已，並沒有在攻擊誰。讓別人感到不舒服我在此道歉。

好啦... 在此我們完全偏離主題。XD 話說回來，小弟也要去考免修了。

wctaiwan

[竄改﹋未來 10]

我有點頭暈了...

[sss2468 10]

這樣免修好阿　強烈建議　

如果我能免修我也想阿　．．．早點脫離ＨＡ！ＭＡＮ　＝　＝

不過我應該是重修喔　不是免修＠＠