【分享】The Disadvantages of an Elite Education

[cj2340 10]

翠湖湧畔分享了這個文章給我，我覺得很值得推薦給大家，從不同的角度來看頂尖大學

The Disadvantages of an Elite Education

Our best universities have forgotten that the reason they exist is to make minds, not careers

[Ice Cream Cat 10]

this is too long.............

but i believe i attend college for both my soul and my future career

[湧翠湖畔 10]

嗯

因為我覺得我隱隱開始出現裡面提到的一些缺點，

例如一開始水管工的故事。

so penetrating.

我覺得自己越來越縮在一個小圈子裡

失去了悠遊於自己圈子以外的文化的能力

[Krislih 10]

嗯

因為我覺得我隱隱開始出現裡面提到的一些缺點，

例如一開始水管工的故事。

so penetrating.

我覺得自己越來越縮在一個小圈子裡

失去了悠遊於自己圈子以外的文化的能力

這個,其實能從你大約國中或是高中就能察覺了

有些人你總是不會想去交流或是做進一步的認識

在美國這種情況因該不太嚴重,完全依賴於學校的大小

小:大家認識大家,缺點:真的是穿什麼內褲都知道

大:不認識很多人,固定的朋友.缺點:自己進步的可能性降低

[愛力克斯 10]

I don't agree with the snobby, preppy writer at all. In fact, the writer is an arrogant son of a b!+ch from an affluent white family. (and he's also a Yalie, just like George W. Bush.)

My education taught me to believe that people who didn’t go to an Ivy League or equivalent school weren’t worth talking to, regardless of their class.

I never learned that there are smart people who don’t go to elite colleges, often precisely for reasons of class.

有些家境富裕的白種家庭有那種 "比我低的人配不上跟我講話" 的自大觀念. 他們不了解, 甚至不削跟比他們社會地位低的人在一起, 可是那畢竟不是多數.

哈佛的學生會利用放假到 New Orleans, homeless shelter, bad neighborhood, 非洲等第三國家等地方做義工, 就是因為這些學生有 "我們受了這麼好的教育, 就是要回饋給社會, 為大家做一點事" 的理念.

The second disadvantage, implicit in what I’ve been saying, is that an elite education inculcates a false sense of self-worth. Getting to an elite college, being at an elite college, and going on from an elite college—all involve numerical rankings: SAT, GPA, GRE.

這個白癡, elite schools 會挑能靜能動, 有特別專長, 或有淺力的學生, 錄取這些以後有一天能夠造福人類的學生. 好學校的學生不是全靠SAT, GPA 等數字進的.

And,

At a school like Yale, students who come to class and work hard expect nothing less than an A-. And most of the time, they get it.

至少以哈佛來說, 哈佛的平均是B, 也就是3.0的GPA (印象princeton 的平均是B-?). 不像Yale, 在哈佛考試或論文的成績不好, 不管你有沒有 "work hard," 成績一樣不會很好, 沒有 "你認真就保證高分" 的道理.

(如果Yale有grade inflation, Bush又只有以C的成績畢業的話, 不知道當年他有多混/笨...)

[MikiRei 10]

I don't agree with the snobby, preppy writer at all. In fact, the writer is an arrogant son of a b!+ch from an affluent white family. (and he's also a Yalie, just like George W. Bush.)

I only read the first 10 paragraphs or so (still reading) and I have to say, I think you misinterpret the writer. He's saying that BECAUSE he was from one of these "elite schools", he had been disadvantaged by being made to think that they are better than everyone else and only know how to talk to ONE type of people - so-called "elitists". He's noting the fact how IGNORANT he was to have thought people without Ivy League degrees aren't worth talking to or that there are smart people who were not elite-college educated.

有些家境富裕的白種家庭有那種 "比我低的人配不上跟我講話" 的自大觀念. 他們不了解, 甚至不削跟比他們社會地位低的人在一起, 可是那畢竟不是多數.

So....what are you disagreeing with the writer about?

哈佛的學生會利用放假到 New Orleans, homeless shelter, bad neighborhood, 非洲等第三國家等地方做義工, 就是因為這些學生有 "我們受了這麼好的教育, 就是要回饋給社會, 為大家做一點事" 的理念.

So.....you don't like them doing this or do like them doing this? Personally, I find the act as mere self-gratification and it disgusts me a bit.

is that it teaches you to relate to stupid people.

Can't help but stifle a nervous laugh for this line. :p

The problem begins when students are encouraged to forget this truth, when academic excellence becomes excellence in some absolute sense, when “better at X” becomes simply “better.”

Why THANK YOU. Nice to see someone notice this problem. :p

Students at places like Cleveland State, unlike those at places like Yale, don’t have a platoon of advisers and tutors and deans to write out excuses for late work, give them extra help when they need it, pick them up when they fall down.

Though I absolutely wish most unis DO offer more help because sometimes I feel I'm just spending 600 dollars per course just to teach myself everything - so why pay?

But being an intellectual is not the same as being smart.

Thank you! Man, I think I'm gonna send this article to my friend. He has this idea that marks is EVERYTHING and couldn't understand why he, with a distinction average, can't find a job when other people with less marks than him, can get one - and of course, we KEEP telling him it's your ATTITUDE and APTITUDE, not the frigging marks. If it were, our lecturers won't be lecturers. They'll be Bill Gates.

They are products of a system that rarely asked them to think about something bigger than the next assignment. The system forgot to teach them

Ohhhh - SO TRUE.

Urgh...man - I can't be bothered to read this anymore. = =|||

Good read though.

Thanks

Wait - was I suppose to write in Chinese? Oh dear....

[evadne 11]

這篇文章我很愛。馬上讀完。

非常感謝。

[湧翠湖畔 10]

我不知道裡面提到的IVIES等一流學校的實際情況，

因為我連能不能進這麼好的學校都不知道呢(笑)

我覺得就是看看，假如有幸(不幸?)接受這種教育的話，拿來檢視自己有沒有出現文中提到的一些缺點。無則喜，有則改。

而且本文標題即指出了，它是在說"這種教育"的不足處，不是在指責"人"。

[愛力克斯 10]

I only read the first 10 paragraphs or so (still reading) and I have to say, I think you misinterpret the writer. He's saying that BECAUSE he was from one of these "elite schools", he had been disadvantaged by being made to think that they are better than everyone else and only know how to talk to ONE type of people - so-called "elitists". He's noting the fact how IGNORANT he was to have thought people without Ivy League degrees aren't worth talking to or that there are smart people who were not elite-college educated.

...

So....what are you disagreeing with the writer about?

Sorry for being extremely vague -- I wrote it over a long span of period and it turned out to be rather incoherent. What I originally planned to say is, being ignorant, unable to talk to people of a lower class and people who are "stupid," and thinking that he is above others are not caused by attending an "elite education," but instead by coming from an affluent upperclass family.

So.....you don't like them doing this or do like them doing this? Personally, I find the act as mere self-gratification and it disgusts me a bit.

I'm pretty sure there are people doing it just because "it is a nice thing to do (to help others)" or even for their personal resume, but some people are genuinely interested in helping others and asking for nothing in return.

[ManUtd 10]

不論讀了或沒讀這篇文章. 讚同或反對這個文章的觀點. 我想大家都會有自己的心得及想法. 未必會有一致的結論. 這個是好的. 因為它反映出了這裏成員們的多元性.

社會上的差異是必然存在的. 這是人性. 有大學就要分高低講排名. 出了校門, 這些東西也會一直跟著所有人(至少是大多數人). 公司, 職位, 收入, 住址, 開什麼車, 作什麼休閒, 你小孩讀什麼學校....etc. 人們就是喜歡比較, 有什麼法子呢? 連在討論區都要比等級...^^ 就算出了家也要比年資宗派.

好的, 排名高的往往人人愛. 但是壞的差的卻也永遠要去人去當. 有供給有需求嘛.

其實...我們大家都是凡人, 進了好的學校, 有了好的工作, 也不見得就會有比較完美的人生. 因為世界的變數不是我們可以掌握的. 別忘了, 有得必有失. 如同我的經濟學老師說的: 每一件事物都有機會成本. ...所以說, 一切都是命運 <---劉德華說(唱)的.

精英教育有缺點, 正如齊頭式公平有缺點一樣. 沒有完美的. 我固然主觀上討厭Elite這個字. 但是身為非elite的我至少還有那個自覺----"沒當成精英的人是沒有資格對精英搖籃發表意見的". 因為只有進去裏面的人有資格說裏面不好. 畢竟人都只能代表自己的主觀, 若自己沒有唸過精英學校, 那又有什麼資格批評它呢? 這篇文章的作者如果不是自身完成了精英教育, 只怕這文章也就沒有什麼供人參考的必要性. 除非他叫Larry Ellison...嗯, 或者是 Andrew Marlatt.

所以, 不論進入Elite University有什麼壞處, 它至少有一個好處, 至少您可以名正言順的說:

"是的, 它爛死了.....為什麼我知道? 因為我唸過......" <---這句話決不是用Master Card就可以買到的.

[cj2340 10]

老實說，看完文章我其實不曾因為他的論點而覺得ivy學校不好。文章的目的出於一種警惕，揭社會頂端一小搓人予我們觀視。作者為了完全表達自己的論點其實在文中其實多少有偏頗或過於極端的想法，但此文對傳統的教育跟外人對其的印象做了以親身經歷為觀點，反方向的思考，仍有可以予人學習的地方。

[ManUtd 10]

所以說:

如果您不/有幸有機會完成(或是已經完成了)精英教育. 您有二個選擇. 一個是去消費這間名校的光環. 一個是被這個學校的光環給消費. 您有一生的時間去發現您的下場會是哪種.

像這種嚴肅的問題留給在和精英教育有關係的人吧. 那是各位的責任. 這個世界等著各位去領導及造福.

至於作非精英的大眾的好處就是, 精英教育好不好那根本不干我們的事. 隨你們去吧. 反正不太會有人專門寫文章來關心我們該要如何如何. 自由及輕鬆多了...^^

[cj2340 10]

我覺得大家都言重了。

[alberttung 10]

i stopped reading till halfway thru first paragraph

DON'T U KNOW THAT HE WEARS A RED SOX CAP?

R U AN AMERICAN?

BASEBALL DUDE, BASEBALL!!

[Krislih 10]

i stopped reading till halfway thru first paragraph

DON'T U KNOW THAT HE WEARS A RED SOX CAP?

R U AN AMERICAN?

BASEBALL DUDE, BASEBALL!!

Gotta love what you just said... priceless

[MikiRei 10]

but instead by coming from an affluent upperclass family.

:D

Fair enough (and so true). Though CERTAIN schools due ENDORSE, if not encourage such behaviours. SOME anyways. I don't know what it's like in the states.

DON'T U KNOW THAT HE WEARS A RED SOX CAP?

R U AN AMERICAN?

BASEBALL DUDE, BASEBALL!!

lol...